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Privacy & Cookies Policy
The tongues.cc website is operated by Voodoo Voodoo Ltd (‘TONGUES’).
This privacy policy applies to TONGUES.
We want you to enjoy our website and services secure in the knowledge that we have implemented fair information practices to protect your privacy. By visiting our website, you are accepting the practices described in our privacy policy, including our use of cookies and similar online tracking technologies. If you do not agree to the terms of this privacy policy, please do not use the website.
TONGUES may change this policy from time to time by updating this page and you should regularly check to ensure that you are happy with any changes. This policy was last updated on 11 February 2020.
The policy outlines:
1. General principle
2. How we collect information
3. Types of information we may collect
4. How we use your information
5. How we protect the information we collect
6. Access to your personal information
7. How to contact us
1. General principle
There are two types of information we may collect from you when you use the website: non-personally identifiable information and personally identifiable information. Non-personally identifiable information does not individually identify you, but it may include tracking and usage information about your general location, demographics, use of the website and the internet. Personally identifiable information is information that you voluntarily provide when you set up a user account, subscribe to a newsletter, or query that can individually identify you and may include your name and email address etc.
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As part of providing our website and services to you we use a limited number of third-party services that perform functions on our behalf, including but not limited to website hosting, server monitoring, tracking user behaviour, marketing automation services, and customer service.
We have no control over, and assume no responsibility for, the conduct, practices or privacy policies of these third-party services and encourage you to read the policies of the services we use below:
TONGUES uses the MailerLite marketing automation service to issue newsletters. Find out more about MailerLite’s Privacy Policy and Terms.
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You may request a copy of the personal information we hold about you by submitting a written request to [email protected]. We may only implement requests with respect to the personal information associated with the particular email address you use to send us the request. We will try and respond to your request as soon as reasonably practical. When you receive the information, if you think any of it is wrong or out of date, you can ask us to change or delete it for you. 
We take all reasonable steps to ensure the information held is accurate, up-to-date, complete, relevant and not misleading. 
7. Contact us
If you have any questions about our privacy policy or our use of your information, please contact us at [email protected].

Francisco Berzunza

December 14 / 2023


Francisco Berzunza is a historian based in Mexico City. He has curated exhibitions with Slavs and Tatars, Dexter Dalwood and Alfredo Jaar amongst others. His latest show, ‘You to Me, Me to You’, ran at A4 Arts Foundation in Cape Town earlier this year. 

The exhibition marks a return for Berzunza from his home in Mexico, to South Africa. Having lived in Cape Town in 2014 and again in 2016, Berzunza became intimately connected to the city and its artistic practitioners. On his return to Mexico, he determined to begin a dialogue between artistic communities working from and around these two countries. His efforts produced the first iteration of Hacer Noche (Crossing Night) in Oaxaca, 2018, which asked after practices of death and commemoration. Artists Georgina Gratrix, Jo Ractliffe, Kemang Wa Lehulere, Moshekwa Langa, Pieter Hugo, and James Webb were among the artists present in Hacer Noche and Berzunza invited them to participate in ‘You to Me, Me to You’.

Berzunza sits on the Development Committee Board of the UK’s National Gallery and advises financial institutions in the field of cultural policy.


Q >“You to Me, Me to You”: tell us about why you chose this title for the show?

A >As I was conceiving the exhibition, a recent memory played in my mind very much in loop for weeks already. It was a dialogue between the guy I am in love with and myself. After my love-declaration at the Ministry of Public Education in Mexico City, I asked him if he wanted to be “Fernando” to me (that’s his name), to which he responded, “only if you’ll be ‘Francisco’ to me”. Hence an exhibition title and a concept were coined.


Installation view: Pedro Slim, Untitled (2023). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation


Q >In what ways has your background (someone who studied geography and political science — instead of art history) flavour your approach to this exhibition?

A >I think having studied disciplines other than Art History or Arts in general has saved me from certain dogmatism which permeates exhibition-making these days. It’s important to be informed about what’s happening today, it’s extremely important to understand how culture has been presented and how ideas have been debated throughout the past. But I appreciate being able to operate with autonomy from… let’s call it “the guild”.

Q >How do you forge (and sustain!) relationships with artists?

A >Most artists I work with are or later become my friends. As most of my friends can attest, my friendships in general are very intimate and in the queer sense of the concept, they are my family. Sean O’Toole recently pointed out that it’s starting to look as if I am forming a recurring cast with the artists I work with, and I have to say I love this idea.

Q >Learnings — with all the multitudes around love, was there any particular work which showed you a new type or texture of love? And was there any part in this curatorial project that offered you a surprising insight?

A >The multiplicity, permanence and omnipresence of love were very much explored in this project. James Ivory said at one point that it seemed like there were three possible outcomes to the story and those outcomes were all represented by one work of art: a) it was all a dream (Manuel Alvarez Bravo, The Dreamer); the character was a male hustler (Pedro Slim, Untitled); or the love is reciprocated (Kemang Wa Lehulere, I love you too”). What happened in the end, and after reconnecting with Fernando, was that the show ended as the show started, in the cleverly touching way Dexter Dalwood depicted it in his work 










In it, one comet leaves two wakes that eventually become one celestial body to the eye. Two, became one.

Q >Language enables us to express different aspects of affection, attachment, or passion associated with the concept of “love”. Bringing love close to home, create a set of sentences that incorporates the phrases below:

A >

Love for drama.
Love of the kind which stories are made of.
In love with Fernando.
Love to me is as uniquely human as art.
Love about beauty.
Love between beings is what keeps us making life happen.


Francisco Berzunza. Photography by Juan Esteban Montes


Q >When curating a show and working with artists you are also searching for your own answers — what do you seek to unpack, share, encourage?

A >It varies depending on the project. By now, I have developed a very unique approach to curating called “emotional curating”. I am very firm in the belief that my experience allows me to speak out and the stories I’d like to tell are narrated from this particular position. I strongly disapprove today of those who weaponise the lives of others to advance their own agendas. 

Q >Predictions: what is something you strongly believe is going to come to pass.

A >I think suffering will become more visible. 

Q >What’s your favourite way to spend a weekend?

A >In the company of people. Observing and conversing. 

Q >An unexpected pleasure you’ve encountered in the last year? 

A >Holding hands. 

Q >Legacy: What do you hope to leave behind? 

A >I hope the people I love love me with the same intensity as I’ve loved them.

Installation view: Graciela Iturbide, Jardín Botánico de Oaxaca (1998–1999_2023) and Slavs and Tatars, To No One and to Two (2023). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view: Dexter Dalwood, Francisco Fernando (2023). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view: Sophie Calle, Exquisite Pain (2000). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view: Iñaki Bonilla, The Return to the Origin 5, 6, 7, 8 (2010_2023). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view: Moshekwa Langa, Index Drawing (you give me the creeps) (2004). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view: Dineo Seshee Bopape, a love supreme (2016). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view: Georgina Gratrix, The Insomniac (2019). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation

Installation view:: Dayanita Singh, Mona and Myself (2013). You to Me, Me to You, curated by Francisco Berzunza, 12 August–18 November 2023. Image courtesy of A4 Arts Foundation